A Peek Inside Her Agenda: Kamie Crawford

With the new season in swing, Her Agenda sat with Kamie to talk about the origin of her show, how showing up directly for her friends, family, and herself reflects directly on how she shows up to host, and her efforts to perpetuate an inclusive environment for women of color in media.

Her Agenda: Relationsh*t, the podcast, was named one of the top 17 podcasts for women, by women on the Today Show, alongside Nicole Byers’ Why Won’t You Date Me?, Oprah’s Super Soul, and Keke Palmer’s show, Baby, this is Keke Palmer. How does it feel to receive this acknowledgment and accomplish this alongside all these women?

Kamie Crawford: Iconic, it feels like I have made it truly. When that came out, I wasn’t expecting it. It’s not something that my team had pitched, I didn’t even have PR at the time. I just came across this article that I was mentioned in and it happened to be by the Today Show, which is the most incredible long-standing iconic show to exist in morning news and TV. I wasn’t expecting it and when I saw it, I was like, ‘Oh, my God!’ I really think that it is a testament to the work that myself and my team have done to try to reach as many people as possible because it really has been just me posting and putting it out there. It just felt like my work is paying off like I’m doing the things that I set out to do and it’s being recognized by the people that it was meant to reach. 

Her Agenda: You mentioned [that] you’re happy to see the podcast is being received by women in the ways that you intended. What were your intentions? Where did the idea for Relationsh*t come from?

Kamie Crawford: Well, I came up with Relationsh*t as a piece of a show idea that I was coming up with for television. I’m such a millennial, ‘90s baby. I remember the talk shows, like Ricki Lake and Jerry Springer and Steve Wilkos and Oprah. These shows [were] so incredible in the way that they told people’s stories, and resonated with real people who are going through real things. I was concerned [about] starting a podcast [where] the market was already so oversaturated that my voice was going to get drowned out. And then I realized that my voice is unique. The reason why people listen is because they want to hear what I have to say and I can relate to people on a lot of different topics. And then when I was presented with the idea of having a podcast my team at the time was like, ‘What kind of podcast ideas do you have?’ [I knew I wanted] to do something surrounding relationships and advice. [But] I didn’t want to just narrow it down to romantic relationships. We are more than just the relationships that we are in romantically. Self-care, the relationship you have with yourself is the most important relationship and the longest relationship you’ll ever have, so that’s important. Our relationship with our mental health is important. Our relationships that we have with our co-workers and our bosses and our friends and our frenemies and you know, all these things are just as important if not more important than our romantic relationships, frankly. And I knew that I wanted to do it in a way that wasn’t just information. What I was intending to do was have a mutual platform where it’s like, girl talk. We’re sitting around and ki-ki-ing and sharing stories and talking sh*t. It’s a safe space. That’s what I was hoping for.

Her Agenda: Honestly, that’s the energy it gives. When you listen, it is like a ki-ki. It is like you’re listening to your girls talking or your best friends talking, [or] big sisters talking. [It’s] also really cool how the original conception of the idea came from what you wanted to do for a TV show and life was like no podcast. I think that’s pretty dope.

Kamie Crawford: Yeah, well, life and just the timing of it all. The show idea I came up with probably back in 2014, and then talk shows just kind of went out the door for young people. I remember young people watching Oprah [and] young people watch The Tyra [Banks] Show. Now, I think that they skew a little bit older as far as people who watch The View and The Talk. Daytime TV talk shows have changed. They did such a great job with Keke Palmer’s talk show when she had the talk show and then they took it away. So I was just like, okay, well I guess talk shows are out and podcasts are in.

Her Agenda: On the [podcast], you give bestie advice [and] big sister advice. How much of the ways that you show up for your listeners compare to how you show up for your sisters and friends in real life?

Kamie Crawford: I’m the oldest of six girls and my sisters, when I first launched the podcast, were like, ‘This is the weirdest thing because I feel like you’re just talking to us how you always talk to us, but other people are hearing this.’ Even now, when they run into people, and [people] are like, ‘Oh my god, I love your sister’s podcast.’ [They] forget that other people listen to this, because for them, it’s just what they hear anytime they FaceTime me or anytime we’re talking. It’s not for everyone. Sometimes, I forget [too] because, for me, it’s kind of like my diary. It’s the place [where] I feel the most safe to be able to share stories and things because I know that the people who listen to my podcasts are intentionally listening. I’ve developed such a great community of besties.

I’m the same everywhere all the time. If you see me on Catfish, I’m the same, I’m just the edited-down version of the person that I am. Any other time and anyone who’s ever met me in real life that knows me from online or from the show says that, like [I] really [am] just who [I] present [myself] to be. I think we’re so used to not seeing that, that when you are that way people are pleasantly surprised. I don’t know any other way to be. What you see is what you get with me.

Her Agenda: Yeah, especially in media, authenticity is hard. It’s hard to come by, it’s hard to find. You touched on this in your answer when you said the [podcast] is like your diary. Along with bringing on guests, you have the solo episodes where you dedicate time to just talk on your own and you let us see the journey through things like your past breakups, then getting back into dating, and then meeting your current boyfriend now. What made you want to be so candid about that journey?

Kamie Crawford: When I first started the podcast, I was in a relationship, a long relationship. Obviously, it ended [and] I wasn’t happy, but I had already had this idea for this show before I even met this person and I wanted to follow through with it. I think I was helping myself by having certain guests on and talking through certain things and “realizing things” (thank you, Kylie Jenner.) I was realizing things and understanding more about what I was feeling. I was enlightening myself, but then I’m also feeling fraudulent. So when I went through the breakup, it was a battle because I have this diary that a lot of people listen to, but then I also have a public image and persona, career-wise that I have to manage. I have more eyes on me [and] more press. Now when I say things in an interview, it ends up in an article and it’s a little bit different. So it was kind of like, da*n, how honest do I want to be? Do I talk about this? Ultimately, it was [a] yes. How am I going to ask anyone to trust me to get advice from me about their own relationships? People share really deep, meaningful things with me. I want to make sure that I’m being honest and [that] I’m also living the things that I’m sharing with people. I have to [practice] what I’m preaching, or I’m a false prophet. I do right by my listeners and tell my truth.

Her Agenda: You have Relationsh*t, the podcast, you’re one of the co-hosts on Catfish with Nev Schulman, you were the host on Ex on the Beach last season [and] Are You the One? Would you consider yourself a relationship expert because you’ve been able to see different components and layers to relationships through hosting all these shows?

Kamie Crawford: I call myself an uncertified relationship therapist because I’ve always been the person that people come to for relationship advice. It’s a very natural thing for me. In booking Ex on the Beach, and Are You the One?, the producers were really excited because they were like, ‘We’ve listened to the podcast and we know that you can give good advice. We want that for the cast, we want someone who’s going to be able to engage with them and talk about the things that they’re feeling. And we don’t just want you to be a host, we want you to be involved.’ That’s the only way that I like to do any project. I’m a very devoted and active host. I don’t like to just show up and read scripts and go about my day, I want to talk to the cast. On Catfish, on Are You the One?, on Ex on the Beach, either one when the cameras are not rolling I’m still talking with my cast. I’m still talking with the participants and we’re still having active conversations because how can I expect them to open up to me if we’re not doing this together? 

Her Agenda: You just did a recent first rendition of ‘The Relationsh*t Show of the Week’ on your podcast, and Reesa Teesa’s 52 part Tik Tok titled ‘Who TF Did I Marry?’ was [the] first story you talked about. You call this an in-person catfish and you spoke about the situation in defense of Reesa Teesa. You showed her a lot of grace and it was nice to hear. What did this story and situations while filming Catfish, teach you about giving others grace when they’re going through intense situations in their lives that you may not always be able to relate to?

Kamie Crawford: We should always [lead] with compassion in everything. I understand the entertainment factor of it all. I was entertained by her story. I’m over here making the cornbread and chicken noodle soup, and I’m chopping celery and burning my cornbread because I’m too busy with Reesa Teesa telling her story about this crazy man who deserves jail time if you ask me. In general, we can look at her and think of a time when somebody in our life told us something that we knew was not true and we looked the other way. Or, they lied, whether it be a big lie or a little lie, we all can relate to that. It’s easy to poke fun and cast judgment but you don’t know what you will do until you are in a particular situation. We can try to plan, we can try to talk a big game, but when you are in love with someone, we all have done crazy things for love that we would not have done otherwise or that we would not have advised a friend to do. I have been fooled by people. People have presented themselves to me in real life, that were one person and then ended up being somebody completely different, and like who am I to judge? 

Her Agenda: You joined [Catfish], a show where audiences were used to seeing the same two hosts for so long, and you’re a Black woman who came into a spot that was once held by a white man. How did you navigate that, navigate the relationship with Nev [build] that trust, being the new kid in school, in a sense, with Catfish?

Kamie Crawford: I definitely had to prove myself for a while and sometimes I still feel like people expect me to. I’ve been on the show for five-plus years, so I’ve proven it. I’ve done what I need to do and I feel really great about the work that I’ve done. I’m not here to replace anybody. I’m not here to be the new Max. I can’t be the new Max, I can only be me. That’s the role that they asked me to play, so that’s what I’m going to do. They asked me to be Kamie Crawford so that’s how I’m going to show up when I go to work and that’s what’s on my checks when I get them. 

It is difficult to navigate, too, [as] a Black woman, just based [on] the fact that if I do make a comment or say something that is honest and real, or if I ask a question that anybody would ask, there are occasionally the comments that are like, ‘She’s so aggressive.’ ‘She’s badgering them.’ I’m not doing anything different than anyone in my position would do [and] I’m not doing anything different than the audience would do. Has it been the easiest thing in the world? No, but I’m very confident in myself, and we have so many amazing fans of the show that are confident in me and support me. I want to also shout out the Black women who watch the show who have supported me and posted and shared and been like, ‘Kamie you’re doing such a great job. Thank you for representing us, thank you for speaking for us.’ I need that, it’s important when you have other people who are not saying that. 

As far as Nev and I’s relationship, I did have to prove myself a little bit to him too. This is his show, this is his baby, he created this. He’s done a lot of episodes, so he knows how it goes. When I came in, he wasn’t familiar with me as a host or in general. But it literally took a day, he’s a Libra. I was going to win him over, it didn’t take much. 

Her Agenda: Along with dealing with relationships in a lot of your work, part of your mission as a media personality is to perpetuate inclusivity in regard to body types and race. At this stage of your career, what does accomplishing that look like for you?

Kamie Crawford: I come from a blended family, and my sisters and I don’t look alike. My friends and I don’t look alike. I need to see and be in spaces and create spaces that look like my friends, my family, the people around me, and my team. I need it to be what we see out in the universe. I need to be able to see what the world looks like around us. When it comes to projects that I’m doing, I’m never going to be okay with just having one particular person or inviting somebody on that doesn’t reflect the spirit of the show, which is diverse and inclusive. I like to have conversations that include all people. On the podcast, yes, a lot of topics that we talk about are very heteronormative but I also like to have conversations with queer people because I have queer people that listen to the show. I like to have conversations with people with disabilities. Today’s episode was with Molly Burke, who is absolutely incredible. She’s an author, she’s a speaker, and she’s blind. She talks about her experience dating while blind. She has a boyfriend who is sighted, but she’s also dated people who are blind. That’s just how I like to do it. I like to be able to have conversations that are real and honest with people who reflect what we see in the world. 

Her Agenda: What is your motto?

Kamie Crawford: No matter what level you reach, self-doubt can creep in often and for me, it does it all the time. If I post something [online] and it doesn’t go the way that I think [it should], or if I have an idea and it doesn’t follow through, or if I’ve wanted certain guests and they can’t make it, I’m like, ‘Oh my god, am I really who I think I am?’ 

One of my favorite quotes is whether you believe you can or whether you believe you can’t, you’re right. Because if you don’t believe it, who else is going to believe it? You have to believe that you can and if you don’t, then maybe you can’t. It sounds harsh but when I’m giving myself feedback, I am harsh. I’m a Scorpio and we are naturally the most critical of ourselves in general. So if I’m having self-doubt or something, this is how I talk to myself and I don’t recommend it for everyone. I’ll be like, ‘B*tch, what are you talking about? Get up, you sound stupid. Get up, go take a shower. Why don’t you go bathe and go for a walk and see the sun and then come back to me and tell me if everything’s over and life sucks because it’s just how you’re feeling right now.’ I’ll be able to give myself more grace [after that] but in the [moment] I have to be aggressive with my self-love. Then I can go on to [saying], ‘You’re doing great. You’re doing a great job. You’re doing your best. Yes, this person said no you didn’t get this but that just means something else is coming.’ I think another one of my mantras is: what is for me will not miss me, ever. I believe that everything that I’m meant to have I will have and that’s just that. If it doesn’t happen it’s because it wasn’t meant to. God is preparing me for something even bigger, or there’s something else that I need to learn in the meantime to be able to get that thing. 

Her Agenda: Being someone who has made a name for themselves and had a lot of success in the media and as a host and personality, what advice do you have for women who want to take that same path?

Kamie Crawford: Every path is different. There were a lot of times when I was coming up in the hosting game, and people would be like, whose career would you want to emulate? Obviously, I said, Oprah, I said, Lisa Ling, she was one of my favorite investigative journalists. I said Giuliana Rancic, because she was on E! News. But the thing is, you could follow somebody’s exact path to the tee and still not get exactly what they got. The best thing that you can possibly do is work on what your thing is and hone in on that. I was very busy trying to be good at everything so that I would be recognized for being good at everything. One of the best [pieces of] advice that I got was why don’t you just focus on being really great at one thing and being recognized for that, and then see how many doors open up after that? So that’s what I did. I just dove into pop culture and lifestyle. I was already talking about my opinions on products, like the best beauty products to make your skin glow or best gifts to buy your mom for Mother’s Day, or red carpet looks from the Oscars and I got recognized for that. When you have strong opinions, people want to put you on TV to talk about them. 

So, it just ended up working out that I was just posting my content. That’s another thing that I would say, post your content. Why are we waiting to post the content? I’m saying this to myself to somebody who has like 500 drafts on TikTok, but, post your content. You don’t know who’s watching. I didn’t realize how many executives from networks were following me and watching what I was posting. If you’re not posting it, how is anybody supposed to know that this is something that you want to do? You’ve [got to] put the content out there for the good vibes out there. Manifest what it is that you want, talk about it, speak as if it were, and that’s that. When you introduce yourself to people, you don’t have to say, ‘Oh, I’m an aspiring host.’ No, I’m a host. This is what I do. And when they say what do you host, you could say I’m freelance. It opens up the conversation, but you have to allow for the conversation to be had. You have to talk about what you do.

[Editor’s note: This interview has been edited for length and clarity.]